Also as a reminder most constitutions only bar the state from encroaching into a person's constitutionally protected rights, there is very little that stops a private individual or institution from doing that unless otherwise prescribed by law. That is why the KKK and other hate groups still operate in free countries like the USA. You can spout out hate speech all you want you can't induce a person to assault or kill someone but you can preach hate. Even in France one of the major candidates for President is accused as being a hate monger.
Richard Oliver
JoinedPosts by Richard Oliver
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115
Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?
by aboveusonlysky inwe're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?
has such a thing been tried before?.
https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .
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115
Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?
by aboveusonlysky inwe're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?
has such a thing been tried before?.
https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .
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Richard Oliver
The other problem that you would have in order to make shunning illegal is that each baptized member prior to them being baptized is given a copy of the church's bylaws and is encouraged to read them. In fact prior to baptism the questions to determine if someone can qualify for baptism is taken out of that book. That book on page 140 states:
IF THE DECISION IS TO DISFELLOWSHIP
25 In some cases, the wrongdoer will have become hardened in his course of sinful conduct and will thus fail to respond to efforts to help him. Sufficient “works that befit repentance” may not be in evidence at the time of the judicial hearing. (Acts 26:20) What then? In such cases, it is necessary to expel the unrepentant wrongdoer from the congregation, thus denying him fellowship with Jehovah’s clean people. The bad influence of the wrongdoer is removed from the congregation, thereby safeguarding its moral and spiritual cleanness and protecting its good name.
Each person who is baptized agrees to live by those bylaws.
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115
Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?
by aboveusonlysky inwe're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?
has such a thing been tried before?.
https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .
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Richard Oliver
I know that people will say that this is a strawman argument but it is something to think about. Look at a few months ago a man in Australia was put on trial for child abuse and was found not guilty. That man was disfellowshipped from the congregation prior to the trial. So if there was no disfellowshipping then that man would still be in good standing in the congregation. So you have to be careful how you want to deal with a situation and the unintended consequences. -
115
Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?
by aboveusonlysky inwe're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?
has such a thing been tried before?.
https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .
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Richard Oliver
And in about a year you will be able to see how a government handles shunning. It does appear that the ARC is going to add that into their report to the Australian government, so you will be able to see the political will that a democratic government has on this subject.
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115
Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?
by aboveusonlysky inwe're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?
has such a thing been tried before?.
https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .
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Richard Oliver
If you think that a first world Democratic country will make it illegal than you should certainly try and then see if it is not struck down in the courts so you may see the fruits of your labor in 5 years or so.
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115
Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?
by aboveusonlysky inwe're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?
has such a thing been tried before?.
https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .
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Richard Oliver
Stephan apparently you feel like you have a case if you are in the US try and Sue under article 42 of the US code. I can pretty much guarantee you would lose even if there was a law against shunning under eccleastical abstentian principle
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115
Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?
by aboveusonlysky inwe're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?
has such a thing been tried before?.
https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .
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Richard Oliver
At least in the US it is impossible claim to survive when you sue watchtower. If anyone knows of a successful claim I would love to hear about it. And by a successful claim the court issued some relief for the plantiffs.
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115
Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?
by aboveusonlysky inwe're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?
has such a thing been tried before?.
https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .
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Richard Oliver
It is not just a law you would need a law that is constitutionally viable in whatever country you the law is in and depending on treaties a law that would stand up in like the ECHR. You would have to get past prior court cases. And even politically you would have to get enough legislatures to stand up to not JWs but many religious groups who would fear that any cretailing of ones religions doctorine it will affect them too, look at Russia right now, or anytime when someone in the US government disagrees with a way a religion acts. And remember the US has the most witnesses and that is only 1/300th of the population so neither witnesses nor ex witnesses have that much political power really.
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115
Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?
by aboveusonlysky inwe're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?
has such a thing been tried before?.
https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .
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Richard Oliver
Another point looks at the US Supreme Court case of the Hobby Lobby decision. The court ruled that a for-profit company has religious constitutional rights, they went further from just encouraging people not to do an act they prevented their employees from doing an act. They literally prevented employees from getting family planning care though the insurance that was supplied with their employment. And that is even after the same court ruled that the government has a compelling government interest in requiring every citizen to have health insurance and if not they would have to pay a tax for it. -
115
Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?
by aboveusonlysky inwe're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?
has such a thing been tried before?.
https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .
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Richard Oliver
But if you think that a legislative action can work you should try and get the requisite number of citizens to sign a legally defined petition and see if a member of your legislature can craft a law based on it.